i must not fomo. fomo is the mind-killer. inbounds: @cascaintern Extremely Online thoughts: oldcoinbad.com/ water build | bit.ly/watergallery

proud to introduce @papertrade_xyz - a fair-launched, fully-onchain perpetuals exchange built on hyperliquid by @izebel_eth & @blurr -1000x leverage -0 slippage -No funding costs -Self-bootstrapping LP coming soon. learn more at: docs.papertrade.xyz
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credit for some ideas ive seen recently: @muarmemuar - others trades/sounds nitter.siddz.com/muarmemuar/status/2109… @roundtrip00 - others trades/sounds nitter.siddz.com/roundtrip00/status/211… @crayonxyz - aggr sounds nitter.siddz.com/crayonxyz/status/21117… @wassie / @MonkeyCharts - ss/gifs (im going to steal this soon) nitter.siddz.com/wassie/status/21121667…
Papertrade works really well together with aggrtrade.
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jez (equity perps era) retweeted
whoops
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uncheck the box
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jez (equity perps era) retweeted
idk i think @papertrade_xyz is fun and new and cool and it's been a long time since we had something like that so i'm going to keep making stuff on it. trading live on this now: paperbird.lol/tape/ this is basically a visualized tape for @papertrade_xyz , with blue representing buys, purple sells, and pink liquidations. i set up trading here because i think most people would be better off fading liquidations at pivots on papertrade than whatever the fuck they're doing currently. couple more notes: - upgraded server, spent a lot of time making the web app fast and performant, if you run into issues let me know - the dotted line is the Hyperliquid BBO so it represents the most current price always - think this is best on desktop and the mobile design is pretty shit atm i'll fix it - currently when you tab out the live trades feed pauses to spare resources and restarts when you tab back - added weeb playlist on loop flappy bird soon, i got a bit distracted making this. nitter.siddz.com/paperbird_lol/status/2…
paperbird.lol/tape/ ok it's live, i made this to watch myself get liquidated on @papertrade_xyz and now u can too. the server's small and scales to maybe 30 concurrent users, if ppl like it i'll upgrade add the ability to trade on it. main app otw soon, just work on optimizing and doing some final testing. nitter.siddz.com/paperbird_lol/status/2…
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jez (equity perps era) retweeted
A note on transferability. Papertrade is a complicated primitive, and managing it from a risk standpoint is a complicated problem. The PAPER token is far more integrated into the economics of the primitive than most tokens are in their respective protocols today, and, broadly, was designed to act as a counter insolvency incentive coupled with a rebate mechanism to losing traders. Market makers and exchanges are by far the two most profitable businesses in crypto, and our goal was to try and externalise as much of their margins back to users as possible. We are now just over a week into the life of papertrade and we are becoming increasingly confident that this is both possible, but also a likely outcome as agentic led software becomes the norm. As it stands, the paper token traded as a perp becomes a leveraged bet on bankroll solvency - and being able to short bankroll solvency materially changes the payoff curve of a manipulation attack. The target number goes from the bankroll, to the bankroll + short side exposure on paper. We can, and do limit bankroll size specifically to control this payoff curve and ensure it never becomes existentially problematic, but external perp markets are not something we would have any control over if left to float of their own accord. For example, if our bankroll is $10m, an attack costing $15m manipulating the price of bitcoin or ether is not viable. You simply lose money. If however you were also able to put on $10m of PAPER short side exposure, suddenly an attack costing $15m is very viable indeed. If we were to make the token transferable at this point, we are confident we would quickly enter a state too dangerous to allow any material exposure to be taken on papertrade, an end result that benefits no party beyond the wolves who have done the math on the short and are waiting in the wings with sharpened knives. We would also like to thank the various perps teams who have reached out about pre-market listings for their understanding and patience regarding this issue, and especially to the paragon team who, despite jumping the gun on us, have behaved with the utmost integrity and transparency once a dialogue was opened. Perps on PAPER will always act as a self-limiting exposure ceiling for a token with this type of utility, and we think it would be a shame to limit the growth of papertrade to the extent that allowing perps would necessitate. As such, at this juncture we do not have plans to allow off-contract token transferability. Structurally, papertrade is limited by the quality of the data it receives from hyperliquid, but we strongly believe that hyperliquid has a very large part to play in the future of global exchanges, and expect their books to continue to thicken and strengthen over time. A note on fees. Papertrade launched with a deadband fee from entry of 0.2bps. This means you don't earn anything until the price has moved by 0.002% in your favour. Over the months before launch, we played around with many different curves and fee structures affecting exclusively positions closed very close to entry price in order to try and devise a structure that removed the edge against the bankroll low time frame scalp bots have, whilst also minimally impacting the traders around which and for whom the product was devised. We were never able to find anything we were absolutely happy with and so decided to stay with the 0.2bp deadband fee through launch. This has however meant we have had to be very restrictive when it came to certain parameters, such as OI caps. Now, however, we have enough live data to fully understand exactly which strategies work, and to make the necessary changes to stop them. The changes we are making will have an on hours and off hours fee mode to account for the relative differences in liquidity the hyperliquid books see between these two time periods, and the ease with which low time frame moves are signalled. The changes we are making will only affect positions closed within 6bps of entry (0.06%) in on hours, and 10bps (0.1%) in off hours. Any trades closed above these threshold price shifts will see no change to their fees at all. On a look back to launch basis, these changes affect the profitability of bot strategies roughly 15x more than they do normal traders, for whom a very small proportion of overall winnings come from within this band. These changes should serve to flatten much of the edge our microfee structure necessarily creates on low time frames, and will help with long term exchange sustainability. This should hopefully allow us to open up parameters such as OI caps a little more so those of you who wish to can put on the size you want to, when you want to. It is possible these changes are still too lax, and that further revisions to this structure may be necessary going forwards. If so, we will notify users ahead of time. A note on paper tokenomics. In conjunction with the fee changes, we will also be implementing a change to the token issuance curve. Going forward, every $1 lost mints a fixed share of PAPER's supply at that moment, roughly 0.1% of supply per $1M lost (the exact number depends on the mint rate at the time the contracts are upgraded). PAPER minting in and near insolvency will also change, switching from a flat 100 per $1 of loss, to a time weighted multiplier on the curve growing over time, effectively acting as the house running a discounted auction on its own future cash flows. This change also removes the risk of the paper-mint-straddle-attack, temporarily pushing the protocol insolvent by closing only the winning side of a large straddle position and then attempting to mint as much paper as possible. In the immediate term these changes will only have a very subtle effect on PAPER minting, but in the long run will structurally change the outlook of the system beyond the first few weeks, serving to slowly dilute out older holders and leaving more recent users with an advantage. Reconstituting the PAPER system into something much closer to the exchange rakeback it was intended to be. We have been very reticent to touch this particular aspect of the system for obvious reasons, but ultimately we believe that these changes provide all users with the optionality to take a smaller piece of a potentially much larger pie than the current dynamic might necessarily allow. Other, miscellaneous notes. These contract upgrades will include a few other contract changes, including the addition of builder codes so that builders can utilise papertrade in whatever capacity they choose to. This will be a whitelist only to begin with and we will have more for you later in the week on where/how this will be rolled out. A small change to contract permissions on the reward distributor and a change on how below bust closes are processed by the exchange are also included, largely to block gas griefing attacks. These changes will be pushed to docs in full over the coming day, and we will further announce once the changes are queued into the timelock pending final security passes, scheduled to go live 24 hours after that point. Final note. We'd like to thank everyone that has tried out papertrade over the last 10 days. It has been a labour of love building this product and both of us have been taken aback at all of the positive feedback we have received. We'd also like to thank all those of you who have spent considerable time musing on the system we have built, and much of your advice has been taken onboard and will likely affect the colour of what papertrade becomes going forward. We know some of these changes will be unpopular with some, but we would not be making them if we did not feel them to be absolutely necessary. - blurr, jez
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owning paper is owning a share in the house this is only valuable insofar as the house is valuable. owning a lot of a dead house is worthless, and any design that would let the house stay at zero is a failed design. when we went out, there were certain known problems with known timelines (builder codes) and some unsolved problems with unknown timelines. the perp attack described in the main was an unsolved problem, but we hoped to solve it as we made progress elsewhere. we knew it was impossible to set all the parameters and variables perfectly prelaunch - we are the first through the wall in a very adversarial environment - and i thought we would have more time to find solutions. unfortunately, the way things are advancing, we dont have six months until a large perp listing, its coming already. these were labelled as unsolved “good problems” and here we are. the market forced our hand into making the decision before we found a solution to the problem, and so for the health of the protocol the token is now non-transferrable. i want to thank all of the pre-market perp dexes, especially the hyperliquid ecosystem ones, who were in contact through this process. i am sorry I was not able to find a design for transferability that worked, i tried very hard. ultimately, the success of papertrade relies on what it always has - whether the end product has user PMF. i have extreme confidence in the product we've built and continue to add to. i have had to personally self-exclude myself from similar products before because i used them too much. the token being transferable or not does not change whether a degen will longterm choose to trade on papertrade or not. the execution, site quality, mechanism, and economics of the trade will. papertrade is the fastest way to go from usdc in your wallet on any chain to a leveraged speculation exposure. providing clean, working, composability derivative liquidity in a permissionless environment is the vision. thank you for your all your support since launch, and good luck to us
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read more here on the technical reasons ultimately were just not willing to cap the growth of papertrade so a perp market can exist
A note on transferability. Papertrade is a complicated primitive, and managing it from a risk standpoint is a complicated problem. The PAPER token is far more integrated into the economics of the primitive than most tokens are in their respective protocols today, and, broadly, was designed to act as a counter insolvency incentive coupled with a rebate mechanism to losing traders. Market makers and exchanges are by far the two most profitable businesses in crypto, and our goal was to try and externalise as much of their margins back to users as possible. We are now just over a week into the life of papertrade and we are becoming increasingly confident that this is both possible, but also a likely outcome as agentic led software becomes the norm. As it stands, the paper token traded as a perp becomes a leveraged bet on bankroll solvency - and being able to short bankroll solvency materially changes the payoff curve of a manipulation attack. The target number goes from the bankroll, to the bankroll + short side exposure on paper. We can, and do limit bankroll size specifically to control this payoff curve and ensure it never becomes existentially problematic, but external perp markets are not something we would have any control over if left to float of their own accord. For example, if our bankroll is $10m, an attack costing $15m manipulating the price of bitcoin or ether is not viable. You simply lose money. If however you were also able to put on $10m of PAPER short side exposure, suddenly an attack costing $15m is very viable indeed. If we were to make the token transferable at this point, we are confident we would quickly enter a state too dangerous to allow any material exposure to be taken on papertrade, an end result that benefits no party beyond the wolves who have done the math on the short and are waiting in the wings with sharpened knives. We would also like to thank the various perps teams who have reached out about pre-market listings for their understanding and patience regarding this issue, and especially to the paragon team who, despite jumping the gun on us, have behaved with the utmost integrity and transparency once a dialogue was opened. Perps on PAPER will always act as a self-limiting exposure ceiling for a token with this type of utility, and we think it would be a shame to limit the growth of papertrade to the extent that allowing perps would necessitate. As such, at this juncture we do not have plans to allow off-contract token transferability. Structurally, papertrade is limited by the quality of the data it receives from hyperliquid, but we strongly believe that hyperliquid has a very large part to play in the future of global exchanges, and expect their books to continue to thicken and strengthen over time. A note on fees. Papertrade launched with a deadband fee from entry of 0.2bps. This means you don't earn anything until the price has moved by 0.002% in your favour. Over the months before launch, we played around with many different curves and fee structures affecting exclusively positions closed very close to entry price in order to try and devise a structure that removed the edge against the bankroll low time frame scalp bots have, whilst also minimally impacting the traders around which and for whom the product was devised. We were never able to find anything we were absolutely happy with and so decided to stay with the 0.2bp deadband fee through launch. This has however meant we have had to be very restrictive when it came to certain parameters, such as OI caps. Now, however, we have enough live data to fully understand exactly which strategies work, and to make the necessary changes to stop them. The changes we are making will have an on hours and off hours fee mode to account for the relative differences in liquidity the hyperliquid books see between these two time periods, and the ease with which low time frame moves are signalled. The changes we are making will only affect positions closed within 6bps of entry (0.06%) in on hours, and 10bps (0.1%) in off hours. Any trades closed above these threshold price shifts will see no change to their fees at all. On a look back to launch basis, these changes affect the profitability of bot strategies roughly 15x more than they do normal traders, for whom a very small proportion of overall winnings come from within this band. These changes should serve to flatten much of the edge our microfee structure necessarily creates on low time frames, and will help with long term exchange sustainability. This should hopefully allow us to open up parameters such as OI caps a little more so those of you who wish to can put on the size you want to, when you want to. It is possible these changes are still too lax, and that further revisions to this structure may be necessary going forwards. If so, we will notify users ahead of time. A note on paper tokenomics. In conjunction with the fee changes, we will also be implementing a change to the token issuance curve. Going forward, every $1 lost mints a fixed share of PAPER's supply at that moment, roughly 0.1% of supply per $1M lost (the exact number depends on the mint rate at the time the contracts are upgraded). PAPER minting in and near insolvency will also change, switching from a flat 100 per $1 of loss, to a time weighted multiplier on the curve growing over time, effectively acting as the house running a discounted auction on its own future cash flows. This change also removes the risk of the paper-mint-straddle-attack, temporarily pushing the protocol insolvent by closing only the winning side of a large straddle position and then attempting to mint as much paper as possible. In the immediate term these changes will only have a very subtle effect on PAPER minting, but in the long run will structurally change the outlook of the system beyond the first few weeks, serving to slowly dilute out older holders and leaving more recent users with an advantage. Reconstituting the PAPER system into something much closer to the exchange rakeback it was intended to be. We have been very reticent to touch this particular aspect of the system for obvious reasons, but ultimately we believe that these changes provide all users with the optionality to take a smaller piece of a potentially much larger pie than the current dynamic might necessarily allow. Other, miscellaneous notes. These contract upgrades will include a few other contract changes, including the addition of builder codes so that builders can utilise papertrade in whatever capacity they choose to. This will be a whitelist only to begin with and we will have more for you later in the week on where/how this will be rolled out. A small change to contract permissions on the reward distributor and a change on how below bust closes are processed by the exchange are also included, largely to block gas griefing attacks. These changes will be pushed to docs in full over the coming day, and we will further announce once the changes are queued into the timelock pending final security passes, scheduled to go live 24 hours after that point. Final note. We'd like to thank everyone that has tried out papertrade over the last 10 days. It has been a labour of love building this product and both of us have been taken aback at all of the positive feedback we have received. We'd also like to thank all those of you who have spent considerable time musing on the system we have built, and much of your advice has been taken onboard and will likely affect the colour of what papertrade becomes going forward. We know some of these changes will be unpopular with some, but we would not be making them if we did not feel them to be absolutely necessary. - blurr, jez
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there are other changes we're making too for the long term sustainability of the protocol. again, we went out with params we set with no data in prod besides rollbit, who had the ability to set the asymmetric fee by notional (we cant, permissionless we'd get sybilled) we are very proud of what we got right, and these changes are learnings from one week in production in the most adversarial environment possible if you have any questions not addressed pls let me know
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i wish there were more hours in a day, and also that claude didnt get retarded around ny open
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jussa made an app - PaperPro, an advanced trading terminal for @papertrade_xyz advanced charting, TP/SL and limit orders, fill-time estimates, execution queue pressure, live tape, and more... and of course, no additional fees! in alpha now - paperpro.app 😇
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jez (equity perps era) retweeted
smoltrade.xyz is LIVE built ontop of @papertrade_xyz, smoltrade provides you with additional tools for TA as you plan your next move + the ability to take out your anger on @inversebrah if things dont go your way there are no additional fees and you still earn the same amount of $paper on losing trades. gpaper, gwassie, and good luck to us
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every trader who has frontend ideas should be making a demo every team who has product experience should be running at mobile/pro uis/anything we are trying to solve the liquidity side, so you can just build distribution, and its all aligned what a fun race good luck to us
no extra fees only extra features dual charts coming to smoltrade today
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more details on builder codes soon, very high priority more features coming to papertrade.xyz more products waiting to be possible theres so much to do
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papertrade solved this bootstrap issue
i have simple rule for new perp dex i log on, can i market 1m btc/eth etc with basically no mkt impact or effect on funding? if yes good, if no bad hl crossed this threshold nov'23, lighter crossed a few months ago, i dont know of many else that can
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we got liquidity and we have a responsive perp dex and now the whole world is in front of us
Replying to @izebel_eth
building responsive perp dex is hard! and getting liquidity is hard! i think once u cross this chasm things get easier
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were building out new products and new features as fast as we can while at the same time sailing a brand new conceptual ship into the great unknown theres so much to do
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