While recording this talk I was picturing what it would have been like giving it in person. How intimidating it would have been standing in front of basically every prolific metaframework creator/maintainer (@vite_js brought us together), and making this claim.
While @RyanCarniato retired SolidStart on purpose, he thinks your meta framework might be next 😲 Tune in for has @ViteConf talk "The Metaframework is Dead, Long Live the Metaframework" on Thu 15 Oct The conference is starting at 2pm UTC. Fully free and online 🎉 viteconf.org/
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It isn't the first time we've pushed expectations and it is far from the last. Checkout ViteConf 2026 to see what I'm talking about. viteconf.org/
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A React Metaframework with an architecture I can get behind. And it supports @solid_js. 🔥
TanStack Start 1.0 is officially stable! 🎉 A full-stack web framework for React and Solid, already used to build millions of apps, from Fortune 500 companies to your favorite tools and weekend projects. tanstack.com/start
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I've been pretty much on this side of the argument. When I've seen the work that goes into designing a framework even one that I generally have little love for like Next.js, but still appalled by things like vinext. Atleast there I get the platform tension. But a library or tool without its vision is doomed to fall apart. Its the same problem as compat. Either you reconcile yourself to always follow the others vision or you admit it is stopgap migration strategy. It's not a long term plan. But, step back and think about this as an entrepreneur. Ie.. build it and they will come. You are supposed to throw as many ideas against the wall and see if they stick. I see the danger here in leaving rotting carcasses of projects in its wake. But at the time of building there is every intention of supporting them if they are successful. If they are successful, is the distinction. What's crazy to think is how low the upfront cost is to do this. Our measure of how to trust a project completely changes. However, our cost of migrating solutions is also cheaper than ever so is it actually that expensive? If Vinext proves a dud you can always go to Next.js or maybe something else. I guess what I'm saying is capitalism has been a part of OSS for a long time. We like to think of it often as this communal thing, but we've had Microsoft and other large players dictating the shape of this for years. AI is actually democratizing this in a sense. In a sense it sucks for the smaller players, I think it risks snuffing out real innovation. But on the average we just put bigger capability in everyone's hands. A single maintainer can move mountains with the right product. Honestly it is terrifying as a smaller player myself, but I don't think this just amplifies what was already happening. OSS has been struggling for years. Maybe this puts the nail in the coffin. Or maybe this points to the way forward. Or most likely this is just the new balance between both.
What Theo is doing here is actively harmful for OSS maintainers. This behavior just causes people to say "if this guy can do X why can't you do Y". But vibed rewrites are completely useless unless you plan to support them.
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It's known that @solid_js already has a very performant, very strict runtime. @devagrawal09 asks what if you could do more ahead of time, because lets face it you aren't writing the code anyway? Ugly as sin, but super powered for agents?
Introducing solid-yield A Solid 2.0 library that provides fully type-safe reactivity, async, error, and context handling At the cost of slightly more verbose code, you get strict compile time checks for your code. No missed boundaries and providers. github.com/devagrawal09/soli…
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Nah. Frontend is far from dead. Huge movement still happening in the space at rapid rate. People are discussing it less mostly because discussion on frontend has been trending superficial for years. "What syntax do you prefer?" "How did Vercel/React ruin things today?"
Frontend is so dead. I still see a lot of debates about Go and Rust, but no one talks about frontend frameworks anymore 😭
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Good frontend debate hasn't happened at the same rate for years. I blame that on people resigning to the fact they would be stuck using React in their day jobs. And that far predates AI. Now they don't need to touch it so the superficial falls away.
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I didn't get in on the conversation as to not invite more work for myself, but AI has been great for PRs and issues. Yes some things are clearly exhaustive for no real reason, but we have people contributing now that never would have before. People who take place in the conversation and understand the problems but didn't trust themselves to write the code. Solid's core was notoriously hard to contribute to because I needed to size and perf vet everything all the time. And I didn't have time for that. Now I do thanks to agents. So between my AI fueled maintenance and contributors use of AI our throughput has never been higher. 7.7x year over year on PRs. And also on issues. People are more comfortable producing issues becaues they feel more confident what they found is a bug. Issue reports are up 20x. Now to be fair some of this could be based on our Beta timing and usage dramatic usage increase the last 12 months. But my general impression is AI has undeniably has been a enormous net positive here.
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Great to see @mjackson illustrate this. The endless component wrapper shape for native overrides is a forced-by-construction problem. While I haven't seen people use Solid 2.0's ref yet in the same way as mix(more or less equivalent), I find the potential interesting.
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Component composition is best for encapsulation. While I could see there might need to be `<Button>` it feels a lot trickier to layer stuff on with wrappers. Now you have structural considerations, context etc.. This isn't my area of expertise but just looking at the shape.
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Yeah, the folks over on @QwikDev are still cooking.
Qwik v2 beta is... over! 🎉 🎉 ⚡️ Now in Release Candidate ⚡️ Laying out the foundations for a fully capable resumable future: fast reactive updates, out of order streaming, async computations, error and pending states... Discover more in the blog post 👇 next.qwik.dev/blog/qwik-2-rc…
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Believe it or not I never made a decision in Solid based on because React did it. I had no interest in being a React clone, or compatible. Or to make migration easier. I chose every piece based on its own merit. I've been happy with that decision because even in places where we've 90% aligned but diverged in the last 10% I haven't regretted it. In a couple cases, React actually changed to align with us. So while I won't claim any tool gets everything completely right, and I'm often critical of React. You can't do so earnestly without understanding what React offers and why. Those who are completely dismissive, generally completely miss the point.
advocating for @solid_js is interesting because 50% of it is explaining people why @reactjs is actually good and not the horrible abomination they think it is
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Or in another words:
I'm trying to decide what's more tedious: Dealing with someone who can't acknowledge React was wrong 20% of the time or someone who can't acknowledge React was right 80% of the time.
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I keep coming back to this. AI isn't shattering egos. It's inflating them. It's harder than ever to keep it in check. You think of the problem that's beaten you for years. You solve it. Then you do it again tomorrow.
Best part of AI is shattering dev's egos, the worst part of this industry. You are not special. Your code actually sucked like everybody else's. You were never the smartest person. The things my sales guy BIL and designer brother are doing is beyond anything I have done.
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I realize this might sound like bait. But legitimately if I were to choose a backend language (I don't have this problem in the browser there is only one language) other than JS that SolidJS would fully support which should it be?
46% Rust
38% Go
5% Python
12% Something Else? (comment)
2,208 votes • Final results
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Now that I've identified a model that unifies all frontend architecture. The biggest tension is language. TS/JS is a given, almost free by comparison but maybe there is something that can be done here. Seems like my sort of hard problem.
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Yes! Great post. I'd typically say more but he already said it.
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