Anyone doing engineering or product management needs to watch this.
DHH on why the agentic age is a revelation:
@lexfridman
I think what programmers do well, good programmers do well, is systematic design, like think in terms of systems and rigor.
And I think still, and probably for a long time to come, even natural language-based control of agentic systems will require a certain kind of rigor. Not overly structured rigor, but really explain very specifically the goals of the system, how to do the verification, what kind of security testing. You wanna do all those kinds of things.
Although then to push back on that, the system will… should be smart longer term.
@dhh
I would’ve said the same thing six months ago.
Lex Fridman
Yeah, so this has changed.
DHH
And I think the same thing would’ve been true six months ago. What I have found since, especially even just the last few weeks of the agentically accelerated development of Omarchy, is that more often than not, I have the humility to recognize that the agent knows best.
Lex Fridman
You can legitimately say, “Make sure it’s secure.”
DHH
Correct. And it would know more about what that entails.
Lex Fridman
What a crazy world.
...
Lex Fridman
The interaction with the agentic system, if you create a nice interface for yourself, it can be super fun, and you’re focusing on the design part and the most fun parts of the design part.
DHH
Correct. And this is what humans are really good at.
Lex Fridman
Yeah, taste.
DHH
Differential evaluation. You give me three options, I pick one of them. Now, humans actually fall off a cliff if you give them 22 options. That’s the paradox of choice. But you give them three options, they very quickly within a split second will tell you what they like.
There are all these ways that exploit the fact that humans will make these snap judgments that are actually pre-intellectual, right? Like, they’re coming from the gut, and then they arrive up in the brain, and the brain tries to rationalize why the gut said what it said.
And if you’re willing to let go of some of that intellectual pre-processing rationalization and simply let your gut drive, the agentic age is a revelation.
Here's my conversation with
@DHH. He is back for round 2! It was an epic fun 5 hour conversation about the future of programming, AI, Linux, and human civilization.
It's here on X in full and is up everywhere else (see comment).
Timestamps:
0:00 - Episode highlight
1:27 - Introduction
2:56 - Programming with AI agents
18:14 - How software will change
27:30 - AI impact on open source
37:21 - Building Omarchy Linux distro
47:05 - Vibe coding vs agentic engineering
1:00:06 - The end of manual programming
1:10:24 - Advice for programmers
1:22:30 - Surviving Internet Hate
1:31:46 - Programming setup for AI Agents
1:44:11 - Obsessing about speed
2:07:06 - Voice prompting vs typing
2:21:05 - Best AI coding models
2:37:55 - Best AI coding harnesses
2:50:57 - AI video generation and filmmaking
3:10:28 - Fatherhood
3:38:35 - Linux will win the desktop
3:49:51 - PewDiePie
3:59:24 - Future of programming
4:22:17 - Politics and immigration
4:53:54 - Longevity, over-optimization, and fear of death
5:05:38 - Eternal recurrence and future of human civization